Author Topic: If D&D had not been created....  (Read 565 times)

Offline kimbra_ailis

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If D&D had not been created....
« on: September 28, 2009, 07:37:15 AM »
If D&D had not been created, what would role playing games look like today?
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Offline Mystique

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Re: If D&D had not been created....
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2009, 08:59:02 AM »
Dungeons and Dragons not created? :scratch: Shock horror! Lol! I guess RP would be very different. Better or worse is up to the technology that could have been created to play other types of game. Interesting question that needs more thinking on :D The pathways for development of other games are numerous.

Offline Dominator Demor

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Re: If D&D had not been created....
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2009, 09:07:12 AM »
Dungeons and Dragons was instrumental in the creation of RPGs like we know them.
Many games and even videogames are still based on that game system.

Many RPGs still use the so called d20 system, so that games was essential for the development of roleplay games.
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Offline SirSinister

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Re: If D&D had not been created....
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2009, 11:37:17 AM »
D&D was in no way the first role playing game...

a simple wiki searcxh on the history of role playing gives this..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_role-playing_games

Origins
Earlier role-playing traditions combined with the game mechanics of fantasy wargames in the 1970s to give rise to the modern role-playing games.[6]

Early role-playing
In 16th century Europe, traveling teams of players performed a form of improvisational theatre known as the Commedia dell'arte, with stock situations, stock characters and improvised dialogue. In the 19th and early 20th century, many board games and parlour games such as the game Jury Box included elements of role-playing. Mock trials, model legislatures, and the "Theatre Games" created by Viola Spolin arose, in which players took on the roles of characters and improvised, but without the formalised rules which would characterise modern role-playing games.[7]

There is some evidence that assassin-style games may have been played in New York city by adults as early as 1920. A simple version in which an assassination was performed by saying, "You're dead," was mentioned in Harpo Marx's autobiography, Harpo Speaks!, in a section covering the 1920s.

In the 1960s, historical reenactment groups gave rise to "creative history" games, which probably originate with the founding of the Society for Creative Anachronism in Berkeley, California on May 1, 1966. A similar group, the Markland Medieval Mercenary Militia, began holding events on the University of Maryland, College Park in 1969. These groups were largely dedicated to accurately recreating medieval history and culture, however, with only mild fantasy elements, and were probably mostly influenced by historical re-enactment.

Wargames
Drawing inspiration from Chess, Helwig, Master of Pages to the Duke of Brunswick created a battle emulation game in 1780. According to Max Boot's book War Made New (2006, pg 122), sometime between 1803 and 1809, the Prussian General Staff developed war games, with staff officers moving metal pieces around on a game table (with blue pieces representing their forces and red pieces those of the enemy), using dice rolls to indicate random chance and with a referee scoring the results. Increasingly realistic variations became part of military training in the nineteenth century in many nations, and were called "kriegspiel" or "wargames". Wargames or military exercises are still an important part of military training today.

Wargaming moved from professional training to the hobby market with the publication of Little Wars, children's toy soldier game, by H.G. Wells in 1913.[8] A niche hobby of wargaming emerged for adults that recreated model games around actual battles from the Napoleonic period onward. Although a marker or miniature figure typically represented a squad of soldiers, some "skirmish level" or "man to man" games did exist where one figure represented one entity only.

The board wargame Diplomacy, invented by Allan B. Calhamer in 1954 and released in 1959, made social interaction and interpersonal skills part of its gameplay. A live-action variant of Diplomacy named Slobbovia was used for character development rather than conflict.

In the late 1960s, fantasy elements were increasingly used in wargames. Linguist M. A. R. Barker began to use wargame-like sessions to develop his creation Tékumel.[7] In 1970, the New England Wargamers Association demonstrated a fantasy wargame called Middle Earth at a convention of the Military Figure Collectors Association.[9] Fantasy writer Greg Stafford created the board wargame White Bear and Red Moon to explore conflicts in his fantasy world Glorantha, though it did not see publication until 1974.

Chainmail and Blackmoor
 
Chainmail, circa 1975Gary Gygax of the University of Minnesota's wargaming society developed a set of rules for a late medieval milieu. This unusual wargame saw publication in 1971 under the name Chainmail. Although Chainmail was a historical game, it included an appendix for adding fantasy elements such as wizards and dragons.

A wargame session was held at the University of Minnesota in 1969, with Dave Wesely as the moderator, in which the players represented single characters in a Napoleonic scenario centering around a small town named Braunstein. This did not lead to any further experimentation in the same vein immediately, but the ground had been laid. It actually bore greater resemblance to later LARP games than what would conventionally be thought of as a role-playing game. Wesely would, later in the year, run a second "Braunstein," placing the players in the roles of government officials and revolutionaries in a fictional banana republic. The two games would be used partially by Dave Arneson who was a participant, to focus his ideas regarding a fantasy realm known as Blackmoor, and by 1971, Arneson would be running what could be conventionally recognized as a role-playing game based on his Blackmoor world. This game is still running in 2008, making it the longest-running role-playing campaign ever.

Blackmoor contained core elements that would become widespread in fantasy gaming: hit points, experience points, character levels, armor class, and dungeon crawls. Like the wargames it grew from, Blackmoor used miniature figures and terrain grids to illustrate the action. The key difference with the Blackmoor games, which allowed it to become a game distinct from the wargame-based Braunsteins, was the ability of the players to set their own character goals, in addition to the scenario goals set by Arneson. Arneson and Gygax then met and collaborated on the first Dungeons & Dragons game.
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Offline BludMagnus

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Re: If D&D had not been created....
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2010, 07:07:29 AM »
As an avid role-player who has played multiple games, including multiple versions of Dungeons and Dragons, I really would like to say all of the things given here are good, and I especially applaud that someone who shall remain Sinister showed that role-playing is nothing knew.

Having stated that, I do have a comment on one part of this area:  if it were not for Dungeons and Dragons, and entire international hysteria would never have started either.  This is not something that was ever warranted, but D&D is the most maligned role-playing games of all time.   It was accused of being a recruiting and brainwashing tool of the occult, blamed for the deaths of several college students, and was falsely labeled as the instrument whereby a guy supposedly plotted his mother and step-father's murder. Every bit of that is a lie, however, and the fact that the companies that published it carried on in the face of that changed the way RPGs were published.  Love it, hate it, make it the butt of some of your jokes, lie and say only overweight outcasts are the only ones who play it, it cannot be denied one thing about it.

Dungeons and Dragons is a testament to the fight for freedom of speech and press, as if Gary Gygax and the other had given up, most of the ones we play now would not be around, I am afraid.
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Offline Arclight

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Re: If D&D had not been created....
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2010, 12:02:52 AM »
If D&D had not been created as BludMagnus stated I fear that RP as we know it would be vastly different.  Of course we may have been spared some of the more retarded concepts in gaming (I'm sure we all have our opinions on this), but I'd rather take the bad with the good!

I know that for me, life without RPG's would have totally changed how my life played out.  I've been gaming since I was 12 so it has always been a big part of my life starting first with 1st edition D&D and moving on from there to play dozens of games over the years.  I assume that if I had never found my favorite hobby then I would never have enjoyed reading so much, or writing.  Wow my life would be pale in comparison to what it is today.  Amen for D&D, amen for Gary Gygax and amen for imagination!   :hooray:

Offline Ingenue

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Re: If D&D had not been created....
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2013, 04:10:22 PM »
It's my fault
Black Leaf
died. I can't
face life
alone!


If D&D had not been created

noooooooo *curls up in a ball and cries at the horror*
Of course I didn't obtain consent, silly! Then it wouldn't have been a surprise!

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Offline Derick

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Re: If D&D had not been created....
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2013, 11:36:14 PM »
Someone else would of created something similar. Its not an original thought as SirSinister pointed out. Perhaps RPGs might look a bit differently, but I doubt much would of changed, other than maybe the default races you find in almost any fantasy story.
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Offline death2uall

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Re: If D&D had not been created....
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2013, 12:19:27 AM »
It's my fault
Black Leaf
died. I can't
face life
alone!

*uses the "mind bondage" spell*  That's okay, Ingy; you don't have to face life alone. Here, why don't you take off all those nasty clothes and get in this cage? That way I can keep you safe.

 :nod:   :winkz:   :nod:

Offline Ingenue

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Re: If D&D had not been created....
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2013, 12:46:20 AM »
*uses the "mind bondage" spell*  That's okay, Ingy; you don't have to face life alone. Here, why don't you take off all those nasty clothes and get in this cage? That way I can keep you safe.

 :nod:   :winkz:   :nod:

*rolls Will save*

*natural 1*

*-4 Wis modifier*

Yes... yes, thank you, that is the only thing to do... so generous...

Of course I didn't obtain consent, silly! Then it wouldn't have been a surprise!

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Offline Bones

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Re: If D&D had not been created....
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2013, 09:27:03 PM »
I think if D&D had not been created, roleplaying games, MMO's, all of it would be rather boring, in my opinion. I mean, without system, what's an MMO? What would games really be? White Wolf got its start from D&D, Ravenloft, all of it wouldn't exist and I think that gaming wouldn't be nearly as fun as it is today.

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Offline death2uall

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Re: If D&D had not been created....
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2013, 04:56:26 AM »
What we really need to keep in mind is that Gygax (and Arneson; we mustn't forget Dave Arneson's contributions) gave us, when we get right down to it, was not a set of game mechanics or a couple of neat campaign settings; it wasn't even the addition of fantasy elements--those had been present in wargames for some time by the time Gygax arrived on the scene.

No, what Gygax and Arneson gave us was a very basic concept that lies at the core of every role playing game that's come on the market since Chainmail: Character advancement and development. Without this key concept, role playing games as we know them would simply not exist today. We owe a huge debt of gratitude to both Gygax and Arneson for that.