Author Topic: Purposely Disobeying for Punishment  (Read 2533 times)

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Offline kimbra_ailis

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Purposely Disobeying for Punishment
« on: December 12, 2008, 09:33:32 PM »
The following quote got me seriously thinking.....

Quote
I often go to munches and meetings.  At one of these meetings, the topic was “punishment”.  I made a statement that Master hardly ever punished me.  According to Master, I hardly ever require it.  Anyway, as I made this statement, people were surprised that in the 2 years we had been together at the time, I had only been punished once.  One submissive, whom I respected, suggested that I purposely avoid some of my responsibilities (like ironing or dishes) to “test” Master… to see if He would punish me.  That was about the worst advice I’d ever gotten from a respected peer.
by: ~ subtleigh (flame)


Trying to think how to explain my thoughts without trying to be closed minded and assumptive. My first thought is this sub /slave is one of the following: she is either submissive and enjoys her submission to a master or she is more like me, likes a struggle, makes her master work for it. Being that the punished sub was surprised that narrator is rarely punished I am lead to believe that she is the first. A submissive that gets in trouble on purpose to get punished. 


This discussion pertains to submissives that purposely disobey for punishment…. It’s not part of play between the Dom and the Sub.  It’s not part of the agreed upon relationship.


Going with that train of thought it makes me wonder how well this Sub and her Dom know each other. How much they talked about the expectations of their relationship? Did they discuss each others physical and emotional needs of the relationship? As the relationship progressed, did they continue to communicate changes in feelings and thoughts?
I am in serious doubt.

A sub should not have to misbehave to be receive the pain or humiliation that she craves. While the Dom is suppose to be in control of their relationship, I believe that is a red flag if she feels the need to behave in such a way. This is one way for the sub to take back some of the control that she has given the Dom in their relationship.  Either he is not meeting her needs, he is not capable of meeting her needs, he is not in control of their relationship, or she is in denial about her needs and he is not taking care of her properly by not having a real discussion with her about possible changes.

To me this seems like an unhealthy relationship……


Thoughts????
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Offline SirSinister

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Re: Purposely Disobeying for Punishment
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2008, 08:52:36 AM »
I think if a submissive has a taste for pain she should discuss it with her master and define herself as a pain slut and as part of their sexual time together require it as part of the action... a spanking can be given as part of the encounter without reason... or find a reason... ie humiliation... 'such a naughty little slut, wet without permission, enjoying all of this without asking to be allowed to enjoy being used by your master, you are here for my pleasure, not yours...  you are here for my benefit, your pleasure is at my mercy...'

Though yes if a sub is misbehaving going out of her way to gain dissatisfaction she is showing definite signs that she is requiring more from the relationship...

In the quote given if this sub has never been punished then perhaps their needs are being satisfied within their relationship... they have my respect and admiration...
Though I dont see why they would have taken the others advice and gone out of their way to draw punishment...

Afterall doesnt a submissive strive to satisfy their dom/me in ever way possible?..  punishment is something to be avoided... 
I will note here there is a difference between punishment and pain... as should be obvious above...
and punishment doesnt always invole pain... as was discussed in the polls section... ignoring the submissive can be a powerful punishment... or simple telling them you are unhappy with them... I have always found that a few words can do more than a hundred lashes...
Though a few different words can do much more that a thousand gentle touches... or even a proud smile can have the same effect... especially when pushing limitations... followed by a plethora of aftercare and praises...
« Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 08:54:41 AM by SirSinister »
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Offline thehomedespot

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Re: Purposely Disobeying for Punishment
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2008, 10:07:51 PM »
Disobeying for punishment sounds suspiciously like topping from the bottom. Not a healthy thing in my own thoughts. If the sub wants pain, that should be a discussion she should have with her Master. If it is something that she enjoys, it should not be needed for punishment, but can certainly be done as a reward.
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Offline Rape_Slut

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Re: Purposely Disobeying for Punishment
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2008, 08:34:21 PM »
:scratch: While a sub can sometimes test her Dom by disobeying, I don't think it should be habitual... If she's constantly disobeying for some reason then there is probably something up with their relationship. If she's merely disobeying to be punished, then she is seeking attention or simply likes punishment... in that case yeah, she should have a chat with her Dom and have that punishment incorporated in their sessions... I think just going out of her way and disobeying not only creates stress in the relationship, it makes it difficult for the Dom to trust the sub... 'will she do as asked/told' and where things are important, failure through simply being a brat is not acceptable… A sure way to end up in a break-up I think :shifty:

Offline SirSinister

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Re: Purposely Disobeying for Punishment
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2008, 10:40:28 AM »
Thats a very good point... generating stress in the relationship... and ruining any trust the dom has in their submissive... which begs the question... why would the dom want to keep such a submissive?..

in a situation like that things are going to end bad... the dom will end up having no trust in their sub... and will set their sites elsewhere... and the sub will end up feeling their dom isnt strong enough to control them and also start looking elsewhere...

It all comes down to communication...

Now if it was situational and infered... ie... a lil whisper in the ear... 'I want you to take the dog for a walk before I get home from work, dont do it and I'll spend hours making you sorry I ever found you, spend hours using and abusing your body for my pleasure, and by the end of the night you'll ache in ways you didnt think possible'... now there is way disobedience is warrented...

Also I edited this post a few times before I posted it... which brought up a thought in my mind... on a board such as this should I do so when it comes to the Master/slave relationship on this site and in these situations?.. I mean I changed any Dom reference from his to theirs and any slave reference from her's to their's...
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Offline Mystique

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Re: Purposely Disobeying for Punishment
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2009, 07:31:12 PM »
I was just reading and thinking why someone would want to be punished (Why?). I don't like being punished. Punishment is for children isn't it? :shifty: I like to do things right to avoid being punished. Something carried over from my childhood. I used to get punished a lot and sometimes it seemed like it wasn't even my fault. Like sometimes my parents would be tired and something little would trigger them and I'd get a spanking or a scolding. Not things I enjoyed.

I guess being spanked as an adult could be somewhat erotic because of the physical contact and I would feel humiliated.

With a relationship I wouldn't disobey my partner if he asks me to do something just so I could be punished. I can see why it might be inviting for a person who likes to be punished. I might disobey because I am angry with him for something. But it would be something small like not coming to bed when he wants me to. Nothing big that will cause him embarasment or lose face.

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Offline UnDyingLight

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Re: Purposely Disobeying for Punishment
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2009, 10:57:14 AM »
ok i dont know about this since i have never been in this situation..but its just my nature to be disobedient...to push..to act out.....ive just always been like that...lol....so i dont know...i dont do it all the time but when the mood hits then deff yes im like this....
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Offline kimbra_ailis

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Re: Purposely Disobeying for Punishment
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2009, 11:08:31 AM »
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ok i dont know about this since i have never been in this situation..but its just my nature to be disobedient...to push..to act out.....ive just always been like that...lol....so i dont know...i dont do it all the time but when the mood hits then deff yes im like this....

Sounds a little bit like me.... If you were to decide to join a BDSM relationship, you would need a Dominate that understood this about you. Some doms would work to correct this behavior. There are others that understand its part of the charm of you. 

I personally could not handle a dom that tried to fix me. My dom understands its not always in my nature to be a good girl. He finds it part of the charm and struggle.
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Offline UnDyingLight

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Re: Purposely Disobeying for Punishment
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2009, 12:28:45 PM »
i agree i so would not want to be fixed...and would need a dom that understood these things about me.....not saying this is how it is..but for me and my tastes i would just get bored being a good lil girl all the time..it would become dull to me
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Offline rowen

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Re: Purposely Disobeying for Punishment
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2009, 09:20:30 AM »
I have been in a simular discussion at BDSM-sites, when a sub asked me "what fun is an obedient submissive"

It looks like some Dom(me)s love obedient submissives, enjoy them following the rules, dislike disobedience and administering punishment. These Doms certainly will disapprove of disobeying to get a punishment. Most likely, it would put a strain on the relationship.

There are also Dom(me)s that prefer playful, cheeky if you wish, submissives. However even than, there is a clear distinction. One can engage in playful banter, teasing each other, testing the limits, knowing that it can very well end in a discipline which than will be playful as well. I call this "play punishment"  as it is part of a play, and brings pleasure to both. (If you know a better term, feel welcome to share). I can imagine the abovementioned Dom(me)s will not like this kind of play.

But even in these relationships, purposely disobeying will not be appreciated. Like Kimbra and Undyingdaylight, I am not the perfect obedient sub -  I am a switch after all! Even in sub mode, no matter my desire to please Skyy, I am still playful, challenging and can be impulsive. She likes that in me, and knows I always fess up.....and accept the disciplinary measures to redeem myself.  These are not " play punishments" at all, as they are intended to change behaviour and learn lessons. That will please her, but is not intended to be fun for me! Many lessons were learned that way, for the both of us.
But transgressing on purpose, to more or less force her to a punishment? No. And most certainly that would lead to a very unpleasant punishment.

Offline Mystique

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Re: Purposely Disobeying for Punishment
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2009, 11:29:04 AM »
Mystique is confused. I read that question as "do you think it is normal for a submissive to purposely disobey his/her Domme/Dom to gain punishments?"

I didn't realise there could be submissive who are ever obedient in reality. It seems an almost inhuman a task to be always obedient. I have not been in a situation where I purposefully disobeyed because I liked to be punished. I usually don't look at it from an obedience perspective - I am not a machine and failing to do something may not be disobedience. I don't always do what I am told and it depends a lot on my mood. There are times where I will clash with someone I get along with really well. I think that might have something to do with hormones because I have found that during those times I am very irritable and I don't like anyone telling me what to do or picking on something I’ve done. Still, I'd not expect to be punished - so this must be some sort of predefined rule? Also, it is fun to be cheeky. I think it builds trust that the sub can be him/herself, be curious and push boundaries as is how most human beings function in relationships. My confusion is at this point. Is being cheeky and playful the same as disobeying on purpose?

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Offline rowen

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Re: Purposely Disobeying for Punishment
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2009, 04:43:33 AM »
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Mystique is confused. I read that question as "do you think it is normal for a submissive to purposely disobey his/her Domme/Dom to gain punishments?"

I didn't realise there could be submissive who are ever obedient in reality. It seems an almost inhuman a task to be always obedient. ........... Still, I'd not expect to be punished - so this must be some sort of predefined rule? Also, it is fun to be cheeky. I think it builds trust that the sub can be him/herself, be curious and push boundaries as is how most human beings function in relationships. My confusion is at this point. Is being cheeky and playful the same as disobeying on purpose?

Mystique, I focus on these quotes. I quite agree. Perhaps it is me, but that kind of total obedience is not me, and I do wonder if it really is feasible.
There is difference between failure and disobedience. If they have consequences will depend on the agreement between Dom(me) and sub. For example, during my Task, failure to adhere to the task might simply prolongue it unless there was a good effort and mitigating circumstances. Simply ignoring the requirements would prolongue and intensify the Task.

Being playful and cheeky is not disobedience, at least not in my textbook. I know opinions differ, but for me (and Skyy) it is part of the dynamics and can be a lot of fun.  The teasing remarks in the chatroom, or while with friends, challenging each other, knowing it can lead to a teasing, playful "penalty" to remind me who's in charge, are not only entertaining but also help to get to know each other and the interaction better. And, not to forget, can be fun for us and the friends.

However, a blatant refusal, that is a completely different matter.

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Re: Purposely Disobeying for Punishment
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2009, 09:16:13 AM »
Thank you rowen :)

I suspected as much. There is a difference between being cheeky and blatant refusal. I guess being cheeky can be a way to earn playful punishments which the submissive might crave whereas blatant refusal can earn more serious punishments. However I am guessing that there is a problem with the relationship if blatant refusal is a common thing, unless the submissive enjoys the serious punishment. But still if the Dominant is unaware of the preference for serious punishment, their relationship might be strained. Which makes me go back to the conclusion I made before, though with more clarification - I'd not blatantly disobey for a serious punishment though I think being cheeky is normal.

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Re: Purposely Disobeying for Punishment
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2009, 02:20:21 PM »
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Thank you rowen :)

I suspected as much. There is a difference between being cheeky and blatant refusal. I guess being cheeky can be a way to earn playful punishments which the submissive might crave whereas blatant refusal can earn more serious punishments. However I am guessing that there is a problem with the relationship if blatant refusal is a common thing, unless the submissive enjoys the serious punishment. But still if the Dominant is unaware of the preference for serious punishment, their relationship might be strained. Which makes me go back to the conclusion I made before, though with more clarification - I'd not blatantly disobey for a serious punishment though I think being cheeky is normal.


Yes, I think we agree. But also, if blatant refusal is a common occurance, it might indicate problems. Is the submissive really in for the rules and task in that relationship?  Or if it is done to obtain that hard punishment, why not ask for it? As far as I know, most Dom(me)s prefer to know the desires (and fears) of their subs,rather than guessing or being "manipulated" by for example disobedience.

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Re: Purposely Disobeying for Punishment
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2013, 05:30:42 PM »
I never disobey to get Him to punish me. If I want to be punished, I ask Him. I feel it is against my rights as His submissive to purposely disobey, and punishments are usually not sexy or fun, and that's not something I enjoy or He enjoys doing.
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Re: Purposely Disobeying for Punishment
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2013, 08:41:18 PM »
I don't enjoy real punishments. But "play punishments" like my bf spanking me because I'm still clothed or really wet or even because I'm a naughty girl who wants the pain is fun. But real punishment are not fun. When we play he doesn't like to have to repeat orders and if he does i get two sharp slaps to my nipples. (not something i enjoy but its an agreed punishment) i almost never make the same mistake twice that got me punished. I would rather please him.

My bf always gives me the pain i need when i need it and where. No need to act out. We do tease each other playfully and he'll spank me for that and well both laugh. That's as far as I'll go.
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Offline kimbra_ailis

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Re: Purposely Disobeying for Punishment
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2013, 06:57:28 PM »
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Offline MissyMystery

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Re: Purposely Disobeying for Punishment
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2013, 01:00:09 PM »
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I don't enjoy real punishments. But "play punishments" like my bf spanking me because I'm still clothed or really wet or even because I'm a naughty girl who wants the pain is fun. But real punishment are not fun. When we play he doesn't like to have to repeat orders and if he does i get two sharp slaps to my nipples. (not something i enjoy but its an agreed punishment) i almost never make the same mistake twice that got me punished. I would rather please him.

My bf always gives me the pain i need when i need it and where. No need to act out. We do tease each other playfully and he'll spank me for that and well both laugh. That's as far as I'll go.

My boyfriend and I are exactly the same way! I like to pretend to misbehave, but to actually misbehave just seems counter proactive..
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Offline closetfreak1990

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Re: Purposely Disobeying for Punishment
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2013, 09:26:16 PM »
when i'm feeling sexually neglected i do find myself doing small things to "misbehave" to see if he will notice and hopefully punish me for them. we have a wonderful relationship but if i find myself extremely horny and he is either working or preoccupied with something else i d tend to misbehave a little.  :tongue2:

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Re: Purposely Disobeying for Punishment
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2013, 03:39:29 AM »
My Dom once said to me, "if you do this you will be punished." Immediately, my face lit up and he groaned. "Damn it, that's not what I mean!"

Seriously, though, I like the idea of punishment. I like the concept, provided both players know it is just a game.
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